Fidelity may discontinue Wealth-Lab Pro?
Author: gchudublin
Creation Date: 6/1/2018 4:27 PM
profile picture

gchudublin

#1
I called Fidelity about pre-market data for Wealth-Lab Pro, rep told me that they are evaluating possible discontinue support this Platform.

If they do discontinue, how much is the licensing fee per year? Also which broker I can use to submit trades?

Wealth Lab is owned by Fidelity right?

Thanks
Greg
profile picture

Eugene

#2
QUOTE:
If they do discontinue, how much is the licensing fee per year? Also which broker I can use to submit trades?

According to our current agreement with Fidelity, purchase of a WLD license by U.S. residents isn't allowed. Likewise we don't advertise competing brokers on this forum.
QUOTE:
Wealth Lab is owned by Fidelity right?

Sure it is.
profile picture

LenMoz

#3
I've been dreading this inevitable notice, The writing has been on the wall for several years. For years, Fidelity hasn't promoted or enhanced WL and has increasingly hidden it on their web site. Support at Fidelity is minimal. Their trader tool is clearly Active Trader Pro(ATP).

So here's a (admittedly wild) thought. WL, by design works, on a component model, but its user interface is very dated. So, would it be possible to leverage the reusable code into a new component of Fidelity's Active Trader Pro? Data is accessible. Trading and charting interfaces are available. How hard could it be (some sarcasm here)? I'd be happy to help with the design.
profile picture

sofia

#4
Omg that will be too bad. May have to move to other broker. WL is the reason I am with them.

I just called them and told them not to discontinue. They said they are still evaluating and would like to hear from their clients who are using it.
So if you are using it, please call them . They said they will consider their clients input. If enough people call and support WL , they may have to keep it.

Thanks.
profile picture

kazuna

#5
Is Fidelity seriously considering for discontinuing WLP? I cannot believe it.
I found WLP is one of a few platform that can actually make money.
If it really happens, I have to move all of my money from Fidelity to a broker who offers similar tool.
I definitely call them to let them know how WLP is important for me.
profile picture

superticker

#6
I like Wealth Lab because it's extensible. I can even use it with the MathNet numerical analysis and signal processing package. I can't do that with any other package.

And I do make good money with it, which I probably can't do with other packages because they aren't as flexible.
profile picture

mrsic

#7
Do they jokes! The month april is over. >(

My whole trading and videos are based on WL.

Solution: It's better to increase the WL fee.

profile picture

superticker

#8
QUOTE:
[Fidelity's] trader tool is clearly Active Trader Pro (ATP).... So,... leverage the reusable [Wealth Lab] code into a new component of Fidelity's Active Trader Pro?
I thought along those lines too.

What I was told over the phone by Fidelity is that few WL users (today) use WL to actually place trades. They open both tools (WLP and ATP) and do their buying and selling from ATP. So the obvious enhancement would be to have the two tools communicate such that WL's Quotes window could appear as a watch-list listing in ATP. (And I might be willing to help--certainly advise--with that implementation.)

The question Fidelity is asking is whether more customers would start using WL then? Users would have to learn both tools. That might work for getting experienced ATP users interested in WLP, which want to backtest a strategy. But ATP would have to "sell" WLP, not the other way around.

I'm just wondering how may ATP users are interested in simulation/backtesting in the first place? Simulation requires a "trading method" to be established, and seeing how the market reacts sometimes makes me think many just react to the latest news, which is a constant moving target.
profile picture

uberdaddy

#9
I am a ATP user (one year) that just recently started on WLP (one month), and its absolutely a much needed tool. I have been able to create and backtest strategies that ATP or the Fidelity website cannot. These strategies have then become my scanning tool, again functionality that ATP or the website cannot do (at least as far as I've been able to discover). I emailed Fidelity yesterday after reading this thread. If they do discontinue it will be a disappointment and I will have to reevaluate my account with Fidelity.

If Fidelity users are using WLP to find trades then execute the trades on ATP, they are still getting commissions. What am I missing here?
profile picture

superticker

#10
QUOTE:
If Fidelity users are using WLP to find trades ..., they are still getting commissions. What am I missing here?
You're forgetting the back end or server-side support issues, which are the most costly. Remember, WLP is just the client side of it.

Also, Fidelity is saying not enough people are using WL today. Some of that is their doing. They aren't promoting it that much and fixing annoying bugs like they should. But using WL also requires simulation skills, and not everyone has that. And I employ my numerical analysis and statistical skills in my WL simulations, but everyone can't do that either. But that's why we have Wealth Signals, to share our trades with others.

Do you think if WLP were better integrated with ATP, more ATP users would start using WLP? Would you post Strategy Monitor alerts directly into ATP, or would you only post Quote window alerts into ATP? Or would you give the option to do both?

Fidelity also commented that more users prefer cloud-based solutions today. Are you using ATP in the cloud or have you installed the ATP application? I commented to them that running simulations in the cloud was a bad idea because my workstation has more cpu power and cache memory than what I could ever get from a cloud server.
profile picture

akashj303

#11
QUOTE:
I called Fidelity about pre-market data for Wealth-Lab Pro, rep told me that they are evaluating possible discontinue support this Platform.

Horrible news on a Saturday morning, but glad to be fore-informed! This would be a devastating blow! Months and months of hard work on strategies that cannot be implemented elsewhere and are finally working will be completely wasted, with no alternative for the future. I also, will call Fidelity and ask them not to take this step. WLP is the only reason I'm with Fidelity and I think it's definitely worth it.

QUOTE:
According to our current agreement with Fidelity, purchase of a WLD license by U.S. residents isn't allowed.

In case Fidelity does go through with discontinuing this tool, I'm hoping they will then change the agreement and allow existing WLP customers to somehow continue on the platform, even if it's on a (reasonably) priced license fee for individual retail customers.

Not to mention, if they leave us stranded, it will definitely be bad PR for Fidelity. They will probably lose us as customers for life.
profile picture

sofia

#12
Please call their active trader line and remind them of its importance. The support guy told me I can use Fidelity active trader pro as WLP substitute and has ton of indicators without back testing. Their support guys have limited knowledge on technical importance of this tool .
we cant afford to loose this.


I plan on calling them each day, So please spread the word and call them as much as you can so they hear our voice.
Yes they are thinking about discontinuing it, and the support guy told me they will notify us in advance but wont tell me how many days notice will be given.

Thanks.
profile picture

akashj303

#13
QUOTE:
I plan on calling them each day

I doubt this will be productive. The rep is different each time and their job is probably only to take comments and denote on the account which will be done the first time someone calls. Each different customer that calls might have an overall impact in their decision making.
Just saying, so you can save your time Sofia. :) I'm as appalled as you are at this news/rumor.
profile picture

superticker

#14
QUOTE:
Each different customer that calls might have an overall impact in their decision making.
I agree here. I'm also going to offer to make an airplane trip to see them so as to make suggestions on how WL can be improved. Does anyone want to come? Some actual "action" on our part would be useful.

But Fidelity's position is not enough people are currently using WLP, so unless this changes, there's a problem. Perhaps creating an upgrade path from ATP to a joint ATP/WLP collaboration platform might work in getting a larger WLP user base.
profile picture

akashj303

#15
QUOTE:
I'm also going to offer to make an airplane trip to see them so as to make suggestions on how WL can be improved

Great intentions Mark, but a word of caution - might they interpret this as having to invest even more money in a tool that they believe isn't generating enough revenue to begin with? And that even their existing WL user base (as small as it may be) is already not happy with the tool.

I may be wrong here, but my personal tack so far has been to never call them and complain about this tool or ask for additional features despite glitches that we all face (as is evident from the forum posts) with Fidelity data feeds. The tool "as is" (and with the exemplary support from Eugene and Cone) is better than any alternative I've been able to find as yet.

Right now, IMHO, perhaps the best thing to do is to call them enmass (each individual user and Customer) to let them know how strongly we oppose discontinuing this tool, without expressing any additional requests for data/features. Perhaps ask to escalate to a supervisor when calling. I just submitted an email through the Fidelity website, so they have my request in writing. Let's see how they respond to that.

In any case, we are all in the same boat here and if you feel your course of action will be the best way to get some results on this major issue, I wholeheartedly support and wish for your success. Be happy to help however I can, including participating in any conversations (probably remotely at first, until they express a desire to truly engage in an in-person dialog with the WL community).

QUOTE:

But Fidelity's position is not enough people are currently using WLP, so unless this changes, there's a problem

I agree with you about the monetization issue being the factor. ATP and WLP complement each other and Fidelity is really shooting themselves in the foot if they take away this critical backtesting and custom screening platform without which many traders wouldn't feel comfortable placing a single trade using ATP. So whether it's apparent to them or not, even if it is not integrated with ATP, it IS leading to additional revenue. This would end up being a very short-sighted decision on their part.
profile picture

sofia

#16
Going to miss all help from Eugene, Cone and their team. They have been so helpful all these years.
Even a non programmer like me was able to use this platform. This is so good.
I know calling may not help, but I will do it anyway. Maybe talk to customer service manager.

I am even ready to pay Fidelity additional fee for the use of WLP,
I am sure many others will do the same for them to keep it.
profile picture

jeffjs2003

#17
Is there any potential downside for Fidelity if they allow existing WLP users to continue doing so without Fidelity's support? Are there mandatory maintenance, overhead, and/or liability issues that prohibit such an arrangement? Sure, it'd be nice to continue to improve WLP but, speaking for myself, I'm totally happy with the way it operates now.
profile picture

akashj303

#18
QUOTE:
Fidelity also commented that more users prefer cloud-based solutions today. Are you using ATP in the cloud or have you installed the ATP application?

I have ATP installed. While I'd be open to using ATP in the cloud, I wouldn't be interested in WL in the cloud at all. Strategies that actually work contain significant IP. How would Fidelity ensure protection for this IP in the cloud (as in would they?) and would we be able to trust that even if offered? As we know, soon as an "edge" is exposed, it is no longer so.
profile picture

superticker

#19
QUOTE:
... downside for Fidelity if they allow existing WLP users to continue doing so without Fidelity's support? Are there mandatory maintenance, overhead
I think most of the overhead is on the server side; it's hardware and software including security updates. I don't think Fidelity has added any new features to WL for two years.

If they are willing to make enhancements to WL, then they could grow their WL user base. But "I think" they are questioning if the current user base is large enough to justify the overhead. I may be wrong.

QUOTE:
While I'd be open to using ATP in the cloud, I wouldn't be interested in WL in the cloud
I agree with you, but for different reasons. Running WL simulations--which are resource intensive--in the cloud is a bad idea. My workstation will have more cache memory for the simulation than what I could get from cloud services. I'm less concerned about IP issues because I'm interested in publishing articles I use for my Wealth Lab IP anyway.

Also, I'm thinking most "advanced users" that would be using a simulation program like Wealth Lab would be comfortable either using an installed program or a cloud program. Now that wouldn't be true for the causal ATP user (The non-tech user probably prefers the cloud.). But the causal ATP user would not be interested in trading simulations on WL either. So whether WL is in the cloud or not won't matter to its audience.

If you honestly think trading simulation (WL) users would be put off by doing it in the cloud for IP reasons, then you should call and tell them. Their impression is that customers prefer cloud computing to avoid install/update issues. Cloud computing actually costs them more, so there's no point in doing it if their user base isn't asking for it.
profile picture

akashj303

#20
QUOTE:
If you honestly think trading simulation (WL) users would be put off by doing it in the cloud for IP reasons, then you should call and tell them

I will definitely be doing that.
profile picture

gchudublin

#21
Not too long ago a rep from Fidelity called me for opinion of WL and I told him it is a no#1 important product, then I remembered forgot to ask him about pre/post market data. So I called and asking for pre/post market data, another rep told me Fidelity is paying different providers for each product line and data is very expensive to them. My guess is the reason why they are thinking to discontinue. If I want to get pre/post market data now, I have to have $80 for IQFeed a month or kinetick(have not checked). pre-market data is very important for trading market open.

I am still coding for WL and will have move elsewhere if WL discontinues. I finally started WL through Udemy.com Yuri class and working hard to produce my first profitable strategy applying the power of each individual bar information to day trade. This is the direction of future day trading. I am also taking a class of Python for Financial Analysis and Algorithmic Trading. Can not believe Fidelity has been thinking to discontinue.... May be integration in to Active Trader Pro is the best solution if they feel data is too expensive. But Active Trader Pro is far behind the competition.
profile picture

psimmons

#22
I just called the support desk and my contact had not heard anything about support being discontinued.
Hopefully that implies nothing is imminent.
profile picture

jeffjs2003

#23
I also talked with Fidelity on the phone and the two people I spoke with said that they haven't received any information relating to discontinuing WLP. As far as they're aware Fidelity is still planning on supporting WLP. They said they checked with their colleagues and supervisor and nobody has heard anything in that regard. I suppose if Fidelity is in the evaluation phase of the possible discontinuance of WLP then that info may not be circulating amongst the Fidelity's support team in general. Still though, the last person I spoke with sounded pretty confident Fidelity is still planning on keeping WLP. I thanked her and said I would be forced to go to a different broker if Fidelity did end up discontinuing WLP. I asked if many people were calling in on this topic and she said no, to her knowledge I was the only one who's called in so far. What's going on?
profile picture

akashj303

#24
Wanted to share the good news - I have confirmed from a Fidelity Director level, that there is ABSOLUTELY NO TRUTH to this RUMOR. Relax and enjoy the up-market action today!

profile picture

gchudublin

#25
Thanks
Greg
profile picture

kazuna

#26
Did you talk with Fidelity rep who is in business regarding to Wealth-Lab Pro?
If it was a rep from other divisions like Active Trader Service, he or she may not know much about WLP.
I talked with a rep from Wealth-Lab Customer Support @ 1-800-823-0175 and he DID know about that concern.
profile picture

jeffjs2003

#27
QUOTE:
Wealth-Lab Customer Support @ 1-800-823-0175

Yes, this is who I called.
QUOTE:
...he DID know about that concern.

What specifically did he say? Did you get his name?
profile picture

fairone99

#28
Hi! Guys,

I just text chat with a general Fidelity customer support folk who called Wealth Lab Pro support team while chatting with me. He told me that the Wealth Lab Pro team has not heard anything about discontinuing of the product.

I thank him/her for checking this out for me. I asked him to please pass my feedback about how important and vital the Wealth Lab Pro is for many Fidelity customers including me. And, Wealth Lab Pro is the only COMPLETE Backtest tool that Fidelity offers. I asked him/her to pass my feedback to the management level. I, a long time and loyal Fidelity customer, might be forced to go to a different broker if the Wealth Lab Pro been taken away.

If you feel the same way about Wealth Lab Pro, I encourage you to contact them by email, by phone call, by text chat.
profile picture

sofia

#29
I called this morning again and spoke with active trader rep. He said they are evaluating to see if they can get a substitute.
But value my opinion. New info today he said nothing will be done this year though. I did tell him that I will not be with Fidelity
if they don't support it.
It depends with whom you talk. But he said the same thing they want to hear from customer about this tool to get feedback.



profile picture

sobos

#30
Good to know nothing will be done this year, I just joined and see this.. and I finally got WLP producing good alerts for me!

I don’t know why they see it as a problem that people aren’t placing orders through WLP, I do indeed run both and unless I wanted to give an algo the reins, it’s the easier way for me to enter a trade. Also, I’ve often been translating buy alerts into directional options plays with decent success, and so far I for the life of me could not code options trades in even though I see there are extensions.

I too will call Fidelity and express its importance. This also reminds me though I need a backup plan. I can save my code but the built in functions aren’t public, are they? I don’t imagine they’d do that and allow people to recreate a sim with their own software, though I guess a good programmer (not me) could perhaps backwards engineer them. I hope WL stays and it’s a non issue, but I don’t want to come to rely on it for the most profitable moves and then poof it’s gone. Then it’s back to fairly useless IMO technical analysis or moves based on a general guess on market sentiment.. not ideal. So this sort of thing makes me really want to understand every facet of my algos and the functions they call because I have no idea what I’d do if suddenly tomorrow WLP was unavailable.

Good thing it sounds like there’s at least half a year at minimum though, and they seem focused on ATP integration. Could actually be good if they basically updated WLP and made it give alerts in ATP and run as part of it, but not a genius idea overall.. sometimes I’ll run on 300 tickers and even with my processing power and ram being good, it’s a ~15 min process.. could slow ATP down to blend them. I like leaving things as they are..
profile picture

claifu66

#31
Just went through the hoopla to get the permission of "Auto-Trade" on WLP, and now realizing Fidelity is contemplating pulling the plug? Unbelievable. Even if it is good for this year, that does not give one much comfort. I will join the party of calling Fidelity to actively pursue them to continue the support of WLP services, after all, the platform belongs to them right? Hope when we call, we should also urge them to reduce the existing inconveniences and bugs of the platform.
profile picture

claifu66

#32
p.s In addition to calling 1-800-823-0175, I suggest also call Fidelity sales team 800-544-5115 and their Trading Strategy Desk 800-544-9807.
profile picture

ashridharani

#33
I called 1-800-823-0175 and expressed my concerns regarding the potential closing of WLP. The Rep informed me (and also confirmed with his Directors/Supervisors) that it is not true that WLP is being evaluated for discontinuation. He informed me that while Fidelity had made a decision a couple of years ago to no longer add significant new features or updates, they have no plans to discontinue it. They will continue to fix bugs and maintain the platform for foreseeable future. According to the Rep, there is no truth to the rumor. So, at least for now, no need to panic.
profile picture

fairone99

#34
Great news indeed and thank you for sharing,
profile picture

claifu66

#35
Just to reaffirm that the rumor of shutting down WLP is not true, I talked to a rep from the Fidelity Strategy Desk. He assured me that there is no truth to the statement of shutting down WLP.

If one wants to nick pick about it, "why did the Fidelity Rep at the beginning of this thread answering the question in that fashion?" Fidelity should come out and make a clarification officially to kill the rumor once and for all.
profile picture

B.W.O.

#36
claifu, it's also a ploy by the poster to see what the reaction would be, and who'd want to know the reaction to such news? Fidelity or some other vendor.

Ip address checks would help.
profile picture

giorgos

#37
ATP is ... edited by Eugene ... I don't understand why Fidelity dos not understand that it cant compete with TD Ameritrade's or IBs fees. I have called then many times and have made it very clear that WealthLab is the only reason I am with them. When they cancel I am calling my lawyer who with we successfully sued CNL and going after them for years of development. Have to restart looking at a competitor again.
profile picture

giorgos

#38
I sent the following tweet to Fidelity and got a response

@Fidelity I read with great concern that users of WealthLab might be left high and dry by Fidelity. Many of us have spent years developing strategies on one of the best systems for individual users. Don't even think about it unless you are going to compensate us.@SEC_Enforcement

Fidelity response: There aren’t currently any plans to decommission that tool. You’re welcome to call us at 800-343-3548 if you’d like to discuss this in more detail. Thanks.
profile picture

rbryant

#39
I hope Wealth Lab remains for non US investors regardless, as it is vital to me.

If Fidelity discontinues with Wealth Lab, then I would have thought it has no control over US residents buying Wealth Lab (i.e. if the deal is over they don't call the shots anymore).
profile picture

Panache

#40
The word from my Regional Brokerage Consultant at Fidelity is that there are no plans to change Wealth-Lab Pro.

Eugene, Cone, etc. -- Do you have different information?
profile picture

Cone

#41
No changes have been communicated to us.
profile picture

SGibson

#42
I just started using Wealth Lab, no clue why this isn't advertised more. I have shared with several other Fidelity customers, they all wonder why it is so hidden.

Great tool to use in conjunction with ATP.

The graphs display faster, back testing, and more.
profile picture

Eugene

#43
Stephen, welcome aboard and thank you for your feedback. Certainly WLP doesn't deserve to appear hidden and underadvertised at Fidelity's website. But you can expect our Wealth-Lab community site to help you unlock the platform's true potential.
profile picture

edwkelly

#44
I was just about to open a support ticked when I ran across this. For my part, I just informed Fidelity that if they drop WLP I will drop them.
profile picture

jheffez

#45
In mid-May I received a call from Fidelity products (first time). He asked about my WL usage. I made sure to tell him that, like others here, it is the most useful tool I use to trade. ATP is just for trading entry. He did not sound very enthusiastic..

After seeing this thread I understood why he called. So I just emailed Fidelity the message below. I urge you to do the same


QUOTE:
Dear Fidelity,

I am an avid Wealth Lab user. WL is an amazing tool with unlimited possibilities that I can’t find elsewhere. I use WL exclusively for research, development and during the trading day. Active Trader Pro is not nearly as powerful as WL in back-testing, strategy creation, technical analysis and GUI presentation. As such, it is not a replacement. Using C# and .NET to program it is the icing on the cake!
Simply put, I refer to WL exclusively in my trading decisions, not ATP.

Recently I noticed in the following link that Fidelity plans to discontinue Wealth Lab. I am asking you to reconsider and to continue support WL. (Ref: https://www.wealth-lab.com/Forum/Posts/Fidelity-may-discontinue-Wealth-Lab-Pro-39325 ).

WL is the prime reason my accounts are with Fidelity. If WL is discontinued I would seriously consider closing them..

I trust that you would take this message seriously. I am asking you to kindly forward this message to the right decision maker at your organization.
I’m available to discuss as needed.

Thank you,
profile picture

tommoyer

#46
Just read the whole thread. I urge every to make their manual trades thru WLP RATHER THAN ATP, or fidelity.com. Maybe this will help when management see clients are using the platform. Thanks Eugene for answering all of our questions over the years. I will be posting a new one very soon.
profile picture

giorgos

#47
Another way to put pressure on Fidelity is through social media. Here is my recent post ant their reply on Twitter.

@Fidelity what's up with support of #WealthLab tool? Hope you wont discontinue it and will be left with what is a difficult to use and not very good ATP platform. Should we move to other platforms?
7:15 PM - 14 Nov 2018

@Fidelity
Replying to @GiorgosT
Hi George, there aren't any plans to decommission it at this time. For support, you can reach our Active Trader Services team at 877-907-4429.
profile picture

MustPlayOptions

#48
I have been using WLP for the last few months enough that my trade volume has increased exponentially. I've talked to their Active Trader team and they have said they are not planning on stopping it however there are no plans at all to continue to update it. So it seems to me like they are content letting it die away as long as they don't have a lot of problems from it.

It seems short sighted since I trade more than a lot of people combined since I have over 3200 trades year-to-date.

With a little more support a lot of the glitches could be removed and a little advertising may lure people away from competing products.
profile picture

kazuna

#49
I'm glad to know that Fidelity has no plan discontinuing WLP at least for now.
And I have expressed my acknowledgment about WLP in the Active Trader Service survey.

But I'm a little skeptical about the future of WLP.
Fidelity had been updating WLP at least twice or three times an year in the past.
However, it's been more than an year since the last update (version 6.9.19).
What does it mean?

Do they still continue updating WLP if WLP may stop working otherwise?

Microsoft may deprecate .NET 4.5 framework
Windows 10 update may introduce some incompatibilities.
When it happens, what do they do?
profile picture

rbryant

#50
Cone or Eugene

Regarding the above, if Fidelity don't update WL, hopefully (at least selfishly) WL will be updated or at least maintained in the future (as needed) for non-US users?

Best regards
Rod
profile picture

Eugene

#51
Rod, please see post #47 above by giorgos:

Hi George, there aren't any plans to decommission it at this time.

I'm not authorized to go into details but a little bird told me that this information sounds true in a general way.
profile picture

rbryant

#52
Thanks Eugene.

As a non US user I would like to think what Fidelity does is irrelevant to us...? Hopefully you and Cone keep supporting this wonderful product until you are on your porch in your 80's in rocking chairs :)
profile picture

Cone

#53
QUOTE:
on your porch in your 80's in rocking chairs
ROFL :D
.. For me, 80 isn't really all that far away!
This website uses cookies to improve your experience. We'll assume you're ok with that, but you can opt-out if you wish (Read more).